Idea: Wayshrines (Waystone?) Sacrifices

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Idea: Wayshrines (Waystone?) Sacrifices

Postby Dirnae » Wed Sep 28, 2011 8:24 pm

In an offshoot path you see an odd sight, carved into the cliffside is a giant human figure. In one hand he holds an axe, the other a head, and a large cavity can be seen in his chest. As you approach, you feel a shivering sensation, and a voice reverberates in your head, asking in commanding tones 'Hero... Would you trade your blood... for a boon?'

Shocked, yet not fearful, you agree, and the pain that follows is only justified by the endurance it bestows on you afterwards.



Idea: Hidden waystones/shrines dedicated to main gods, you sacrifice something at their command in return for a blessing.
There's waystone things in TES:V, but they're more dedicated towards skillgain as far as I can tell, and I'd like something more atmospheric. Think more like the hidden shrines in Gothic 2/3. Been playing The Arktwend Overhaul and the lootable runes in that got me thinking about this too.

Shor: Health is damaged and drained for a long time in return for a permanent +3 to an attribute? Rare/Guarded
Kyne: Gold donation? A one use item would be added to your inventory, which can be used to greatly increase the players speed temporarily, for travelling uses. Those that exist are on travel routes, but are few and far between.
Alduin: Crippled Magicka for a short time, in return for a permanant +3 to a random skill? Rare/Guarded

Alduin/Shor shrines are one use only. Kyne shrine can be used once every few days perhaps.
Tell me what you think.
[11:05:43] Wolli: ah yeharp, i felled the [NUG-RI-BOOGAR] felf too MK!

Muspila

Re: Idea: Wayshrines (Waystone?) Sacrifices

Postby Muspila » Thu Sep 29, 2011 3:01 pm

I definetively like the idea.

I would try to establish some parallelism to the other religions in the original game insofar that it should be the menhir that casts the blessing on you, like the same thing does the altar at the imperial cult and the shrine at the tribunal-temple. But in this case, as you said, it should be a constant effect at some of the sanctuaries.

Now my extension of my idea:

There is one sanctuary for each of the deities all over Skyrim. They are in places that somehow reflect the character of the deity. Note that is definetively amending the way it is going to be in TES V, yet involves some of the lore in it:

Example:
-Shors sanctuary is in a cave deep below the surface and guarded by dead nord warriors.
-Kynes sanctuary is on top of a mountain, guarded by birds and undead risen from carrion, alternatively a boat-temple.
-Alduins sanctuary is a forsaken temple of the dragon cult mentioned in TES V. Like this one
-Ysmirs sanctuary is the Talos-sanctuary from TES V. I have already sketched a motif of Ysmir that could be used for the menhir granting the blessing (it should be turned into something better though then): Link
-Orkeys sanctuary could be in the middle of an area crowded by barrow hills, also guarded by dead nord warriors and maybe necromancers (how about this is going to be found in southeastern haafinheim?).
-Stuhns sanctuary could be a bigger longhouse somewhere in the wilderness.

I'm not sure what to give the others yet. Mauloch's sanctuary could simply be a shrine along the way somewhere in the velothi mountains a bit similar to the daedric shrines in Oblivion, for example.


Edit: The big temple lestat has modelled could be one of the sanctuaries then, so you would not see a nord temple in each city and you would not have such regular temples like in Cyrodiil or Morrowind which would somehow underline how the nords are different from the other cultures. Instead you would have shamans or witches that offer regular blessing living in ordinary homes.

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Re: Idea: Wayshrines (Waystone?) Sacrifices

Postby Dirnae » Thu Sep 29, 2011 4:52 pm

I like where you're going with this. Perhaps each gives a +5 to seperate attributes.
I wouldn't get rid of city temples, or else they'd be forced to fight god knows what to pay tribute.
In fact, I'd go with the previous plan where we have cities dedicated to gods, with main god's having joinable factions.

For example, Whiterun would have the Temple of Shor, with a joinable faction (the Ash-guard or w/e).
[11:05:43] Wolli: ah yeharp, i felled the [NUG-RI-BOOGAR] felf too MK!

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Re: Idea: Wayshrines (Waystone?) Sacrifices

Postby Lestat DeLioncourt » Fri Sep 30, 2011 8:05 am

Cool ideas Dirnae and Muspila, I like it a lot.
#include <iostream>
using namespace std;

int main () {
cout << "This is C++, you won't even think of Java again once you discovered what this language is able to do" << endl;
return 0;
}

Muspila

Re: Idea: Wayshrines (Waystone?) Sacrifices

Postby Muspila » Sat Oct 01, 2011 10:54 am

I like where you're going with this. Perhaps each gives a +5 to seperate attributes.
I wouldn't get rid of city temples, or else they'd be forced to fight god knows what to pay tribute.
In fact, I'd go with the previous plan where we have cities dedicated to gods, with main god's having joinable factions.

For example, Whiterun would have the Temple of Shor, with a joinable faction (the Ash-guard or w/e).


I would like to expand this onto a discussion on the nordic religion and the way the people perform their reverence towards their gods.

Right now I have ideas of how everything could be that maybe only works for the countryside. In my imagination the Nords do not worship their gods. They fear, respect and follow them more than falling on their knees in front of them. The central aspect of the nord-religion, imo, should be the tales, lyrics and songs of past deeds of gods and heroes. These are told by the shamans or priests. If we have shamans, we should probably elaborate their shamanism. Typical elements of shamanism are totems, totems are infact mentioned in a couple of places, and ways of getting into contact with the other world. The Skaal pursue such a shamanism.

But I realise that such a religion does not seem believable in places like cities. I still would like to have the huge temples in only two or three cities as I believe it would be dull to make the same thing you've got in Cyrodiil and Highrock once more, in particular I'm not fond of making individual cults for single deities as you have them in Cyrodiil or Highrock. I imagine bigger and more decorated houses in other cities that do not contain something dedicated to a particular deity, but offer a log-altar and/or a menhir dedicated to the gods and priests that offer service. In villages like amberguard you might only have a hut with a shaman/priest in it and a log altar, at least this is how we've got it atm.

Edit:

Menhirs like this one probably portray totems:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/22362022/pics/menhir.jpg

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Re: Idea: Wayshrines (Waystone?) Sacrifices

Postby Dirnae » Sat Oct 01, 2011 12:34 pm

Well it'd be easier, so alright then. I guess there'll be no religious faction in Skyrim then, just misc quests, there's not much you can do with that sort of thing really, as it'd be less tied together and more like seperate entities worshipping the same god from the sounds of it, and just less important in general.
You probably are already thinking this, but I wouldn't use menhrirs like that for religion, I mean it'd need to be something different to a deer.

I'd like to have some conflicting factions though, for sure, which I was thinking of tying religious factions into.
We'll have to use city guards and a completely new faction instead I guess. I suppose I'll discuss this in another thread.
[11:05:43] Wolli: ah yeharp, i felled the [NUG-RI-BOOGAR] felf too MK!

Muspila

Re: Idea: Wayshrines (Waystone?) Sacrifices

Postby Muspila » Sat Oct 01, 2011 1:25 pm

Well it'd be easier, so alright then. I guess there'll be no religious faction in Skyrim then, just misc quests, there's not much you can do with that sort of thing really, as it'd be less tied together and more like seperate entities worshipping the same god from the sounds of it, and just less important in general.


It depends on how well the religious content is worked into regular dialogue and how much they are present by motifs, texts and that kind of stuff. My main concern is that the religion is not presented like in Cyrodiil or Morrowind. Maybe the idea of a menhir dedicated to the gods in general isn't such a good idea, too similar to the almsivi-shrines.

I just think it would be nice to have a province without so many religious fanatics and sects in it and an understanding of deities that is a bit natcher overall and more in the minds and everyday-life of the people than elaborate rite, dogma and huge buildings.

You probably are already thinking this, but I wouldn't use menhrirs like that for religion, I mean it'd need to be something different to a deer.

When nalin made that motif he suggested these menhirs might also be marking hunting-areas. I did not think of using them in buildings anyway, but outside. And a larger amount of menhirs on top of barrow hills, like here: http://imperial-library.info/sites/defa ... terior.jpg
Not sure what's wrong about a deer as long is it is not the only totem they have. It's anyway not required to explain those menhirs that are standing outside.

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Re: Idea: Wayshrines (Waystone?) Sacrifices

Postby Dirnae » Sat Oct 01, 2011 2:00 pm

Well the only problem is using it in a religious context, Skaal are the only nords who I would say that using plain animals in a religious context would fit, as they worship nature.

Using it in general is fine, but that's not really the point here.
I'm fine with religion taking a backseat, we can make the mod more politically and idealistically driven in that case.

And I'm sure it'll be MUCH easier this way. A questline erased and replaced with dialogue, texts and imagery, should be much less time-consuming (as those would need to be done anyway, just under the pretense of a cult).
[11:05:43] Wolli: ah yeharp, i felled the [NUG-RI-BOOGAR] felf too MK!

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