[WIP] Chronicles of Ysgramor

Posts: 8
Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2011 9:36 am

[WIP] Chronicles of Ysgramor

Postby Jack Pot » Fri Apr 13, 2012 10:46 pm

Hi,
just worked on it for a few hours and hope to make some progress eventually :roll:
"Chronicles of Ysgramor" is simply the title of Ysgramor's biography.
It's supposed to be a series of books in ShotN, its only 3 chapters out of 4 yet and even here you encounter some [...]-tags. The story you can read in the attachment is still kind of in "alpha" stage.
I upload this wip basically as a "pubilc personal backup", by which I mean: this is a safe and convenient backup mainly for myself in case anything goes wrong with my computer. The fact that it's public doesn't mean I consider it published :ugeek:
This is what [WIP] stands for, doesn't it?
Oh, and please don't comment on any typos in the story yet as correcting them is only planned for the first beta release... ;)
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

Posts: 226
Joined: Mon May 16, 2011 6:11 am

Re: [WIP] Chronicles of Ysgramor

Postby french ninja » Sat Apr 14, 2012 4:20 am

I'll look it over in depth tomorrow, but it looks pretty good so far. Nice work.
Jarl of Lore for Skyrim: Home of the Nords

Posts: 895
Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2011 1:06 pm

Re: [WIP] Chronicles of Ysgramor

Postby Worsas » Sat Apr 14, 2012 1:39 pm

hey you're back!

I already read your story back in the old forums and just checked again how far you have got meanwhile. I would like to use your descriptions of Windhelm for one in our skyrim, assuming you get this story done at some point. It's really an impressive piece of work.

I have a request for something you may or may not incorporate in your story. It's so that i have been wondering how to give the nordic deities a more prominent role in the mod. And it's so that the 'varieties of faith in the empire' describes Herma Mora (Hermaeus Mora) as a major figure of nordic stories.
Herma-Mora (The Woodland Man): Ancient Atmoran demon who, at one time, nearly seduced the Nords into becoming Aldmer. Most Ysgramor myths are about escaping the wiles of old Herma-Mora. Also called the Demon of Knowledge [...]


In some way Herma Mora is tied to mership or the "sentient races" in general and he is a figure who embodies knowledge, wizardy of elves against nords. As long as it does not feel too slammed into the whole story, it will be cool to see herma mora getting a role somewhere.

Posts: 8
Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2011 9:36 am

Re: [WIP] Chronicles of Ysgramor

Postby Jack Pot » Sat Apr 14, 2012 7:40 pm

Hi Worsas,

thank you very much for pointing me to Herma-Mora!
I had never heard of him before, but of course you have a very good point.
Also called the Demon of Knowledge, he is vaguely related to the cult origins of the Morag Tong ('Foresters Guild'),...
(UESP, Varieties of Faith)
As our Ysgramor is clearly a man who somehow grows beyond being human, he would be prone to be seduced by the "Demon of Knowledge" and the quote from the same text
Most Ysgramor myths are about escaping the wiles of old Herma-Mora.
can be read that way.

Being an "Atmoran Demon" and referred to as the "Woodland Man", Rasgard should at least make some sarcastic comment about the fact that the atmoran Nords actually deforested the entire continent.
The chronicles also describe how Ysgramor looses touch with reality:
By now, the Nords were worshipping Ysgramor as if he was Shor himself, a shadow of the god, freeing himself from the underworld. I don't know who came up with the idea. Maybe they weren't even serious. But as Shor has led the Nord against the Aldmeri before his fall, Ysgramor has led his men against mer without losing a single warrior, so far.
And:
Ysgramor had become some kind of ethereal leader of the Nords and was beginning to believe it himself. Being a son of a god still makes you a mere mortal.


Yes, this is certainly much needed input for chapter 4.
So again, thanks a lot!

I also just had an idea: would it be possible for the player, after he/she found all parts of the book and actually read them, to have a "dream" in which the player is simply teleported to Saarthal before its destruction - maybe even scripted to be Rasgard, a little Nord boy at that time - and wander around the town (set up as interior), including Moothall and all?
There may (or may not be) a quest before the player is allowed (or rather: thrown) back, simply waking up, unharmed and rested. Eye candy and some kind of backdrop to the story you just read being the "quest reward" for collecting the books...
just a thought.

Cheers -
Jack Pot

User avatar
Posts: 644
Joined: Sat May 14, 2011 8:07 am
Location: The riverside of Styx...waiting for Charon, the ferryman

Re: [WIP] Chronicles of Ysgramor

Postby Lestat DeLioncourt » Sat Apr 14, 2012 8:36 pm

Jack Pot wrote:I also just had an idea: would it be possible for the player, after he/she found all parts of the book and actually read them, to have a "dream" in which the player is simply teleported to Saarthal before its destruction - maybe even scripted to be Rasgard, a little Nord boy at that time - and wander around the town (set up as interior), including Moothall and all?


Welcome back, mate.

Sounds like a good idea and is easy to make. Levitation disabled, dense trees and steep slopes on the outer parts. The landmesh is easy to make in 3ds Max using displacement maps and a noise modifier.
#include <iostream>
using namespace std;

int main () {
cout << "This is C++, you won't even think of Java again once you discovered what this language is able to do" << endl;
return 0;
}

Posts: 895
Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2011 1:06 pm

Re: [WIP] Chronicles of Ysgramor

Postby Worsas » Sat Apr 14, 2012 9:26 pm

@Jackpot: Just in case you didn't see it yet, Herma Mora is noone but the daedric prince Hermaeus Mora that you may know from the games.
It's also interesting to note that the Nords share Herma Mora as deity with the wood elves. What nords too share with Woodelves is lycantrophy, interestingly there are many things nord share with woodelves and their relation towards woodelves is less hateful than towards other mer.

It also seems that Nords already were in touch with elves back in Atmora in some form as many nord-god-descriptions imply. There is even a mentioning of an aldmeri rule of Atmora in the earliest days. I have the respective quotations in the this thread: viewtopic.php?f=43&t=227

The reachmen descend from the earliest settlers from atmora but they are enemies of the nords. (1st pg)

The giants also came from Atmora. They are supposed to be some kind of ancestors to the nords. (the 7 fights of Aldudagga) After all the nords are said to be "somewhat reduced from their forebears of old" (1st pg)

There are two other elements you may or may not include in your story:
-Thu'ums
-Totems (The ancient nord gods are represented by animals)

Although the human perception of deities is said to consist of the gods being their creators rather than their ancestors, the descriptions of the nord-deities imply that nords in some form look at their deities as their ancestors (Kyne = The mother of men) MK the big guru somewhere even says that nedics and atmorans are actually two different people.

The nords too believe that they were created/formed in Skyrim on the Throat of the World, this contradicts the idea of ancestorship then:
The Nords believe men were formed on this mountain when the sky breathed onto the land. Hence the Song of Return refers not only to Ysgramor's return to Tamriel after the destruction of Saarthal, but to the Nords' return to what they believe was their original homeland.



These are just a couple of things that I stumbled over at some point in the past. Feel free to use them or not. I'm not asking for dragons showing up in your story, really, although i like some of the dragon-related artistry in TES V.


Edit:
I am not a lore-expert and some of the above things may be utterly incorrect.
Last edited by Worsas on Wed Apr 25, 2012 9:23 am, edited 1 time in total.

Posts: 895
Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2011 1:06 pm

Re: [WIP] Chronicles of Ysgramor

Postby Worsas » Sat Apr 14, 2012 10:14 pm

Sorry if I'm confusing you here. Some of these things may not be accurate anyway.
I'm merely intending to point out that there are quite a few of mythical figures and rather magical or fantastic elements in the fictive mythology of the nords, many of which did not get covered by TES V either.
For example:
Nordic Goddess of the Storm. Widow of Shor and favored god of warriors. She is often called the Mother of Men. Her daughters taught the first Nords the use of the thu'um, or Storm Voice.

Kynes Daughters: Priestresses, Dragons, Birds, Fylgia-like spirits?

I hope I'm not too much offtopic with this.

Posts: 895
Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2011 1:06 pm

Re: [WIP] Chronicles of Ysgramor

Postby Worsas » Sun Apr 15, 2012 12:56 pm

I have merely listed a lot of things from across unofficial writings, lore-forums, single books and pocket guides.
Speaking of myself, I have always tried to take every reference into account in some form or the other in each field of Skyrim-modding I have been in so far. Though I also think that these references are nothing but a database of possible concepts people who implement a province can use and nothing you must slave yourself along.

Posts: 8
Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2011 9:36 am

Re: [WIP] Chronicles of Ysgramor

Postby Jack Pot » Sun Apr 15, 2012 8:06 pm

Yep, this is precisely the kind of discussion I was hoping for ;)
Also, if you read the story and something obviously contradicts some aspect of lore: please point it out here!
While the Chronicles are mainly a biography of Ysgramor written by his (younger) son Rasgard, their main focus is on the events that led to the reconquista of Skyrim by the Nords, and, to a lesser extend, the relation between Rasgard and his older brother Hrindal.
I dont't think it'll have dragons in it, though. Sorry :cry:

Every bit of "backdrop" information is of great value to me as, well, I can't write whil I'm reading.
Oh, and yeah, Hi Lestat - I never really been away 8-)
Cheers evryone

Posts: 895
Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2011 1:06 pm

Re: [WIP] Chronicles of Ysgramor

Postby Worsas » Tue Apr 17, 2012 9:56 pm

Hi Jackpot,

I have read through it all again. It's really a novel. :D
As for the alignment along lore, there are a number of collisions, I could find with my limited knowledge. A few cases may become a hassle to fix. I'll be disregarding TES V for now but there are a couple of things TES V adds to the account, that you probably know about.

Naming. Those events play in the merethic era, about 1000 years before the 1st era begins, if I'm understanding the timeline in TIL correctly. Nevertheless provinces are called by the modern names in the story. Unless Rasgard is thousands of years old at the time of writing, you should be using names like "Mereth", "Dwemereth" (Morrowind), "Cyrod".
"Dunmeth Pass" is probably related to the dunmer who at that time are still Chimer. Almost all of the names for places you are using are not really suitable for the timeframe, except for such names like Saarthal and Hsaarik Head.

State of Flora in Atmora. You are describing civil wars and increasing cold in Atmora, which on itself is both correct. It's also correct how you describe that Nords had been to Skyrim before Ysgramor.
Though it's also stated that there have been immigrants from Atmora until 1E 68, thousand years after Ysgramor. So it seems unlikely that there are no trees left at all, eg.

Literature. In your story, Rasgard writes a diary and there is a book of "Kyne's Sayings" and not at least Rasgard writing a complete and complex story.
I can't offer quotations from before TES V right now who will prove my claim but I know that the Nords have always been said to rely on oral tradition mostly. According to TES V Ysgramor just introduced (runic) writing in the time of his reign.

Posts: 8
Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2011 9:36 am

Re: [WIP] Chronicles of Ysgramor

Postby Jack Pot » Mon Apr 23, 2012 9:52 pm

:shock:
I'm in for a major overhaul then! - when I started this, TES V wasn't even heard of, and some aspects of the "new lore" seem a bit far fetched to me, so even dismissing this, yea right, there's work to do.

But being lazy as I am, I probably go on like this 'til story's done and then replace the new names by old ones. Or I simply write one of those well tested introductions like "I am a printer by profession. You would be surprised how often I get woken up at night by someone shouting 'You must print this before morning!'. But once, a young man (I think) just stood there and handed me a package...' manuscript etc. could-not-believe so I checked and it seems to be genuine kind of story of an editor as an introduction to the entire story.

Who informs us in his editorial that he left the manuscript unchanged to the word, but only swapped the old names by the contemporary ones, so our estimated reader finds it easier to follow the events... :twisted:

Posts: 895
Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2011 1:06 pm

Re: [WIP] Chronicles of Ysgramor

Postby Worsas » Wed Apr 25, 2012 10:24 am

I had the following idea:

There is a book called "Chronicles of Ysgramor" whose author is unknown, as you suggest. That book is something like a renarration of an ancient nord story that was turned into fluent tamrielic by that person with holes being filled, things changed, things added nobody but that person could know.

The original substance of the story is found throughout skyrim in the form of little stone tablets each of which contain a passage. Some of them being líterally what you wrote, others describing the same passage, just different. Those tablets could be found in barrows, merethic nord ruins, in Mages Guild branches or within the Ysmir Collective.

I think it may be interesting to add the songs of return, not as a lame ingame-book but as an alternative account in the same form, as many many small tablets all over skyrim.

The player would be required to know about the draconic letters and ancient nord tongue before being able to decipher a plate. Maybe it could just be a pile of letters similar to the dwemer texts that reveals its content in a messagebox once the player fulfills the conditions. But that may be a hassle to script.

I just like the idea of those stone tablets :D Maybe somewhere there is a book with a mere transcription of many tablets into Tamrielic by some archeologist who points at the incompleteness and difficult translatability.


This would be a way to embed the whole story. That may take a lot of work but you have been putting many hours into this and it'll will be worth it, I think.

Ultimately the love and effort of fellow modders should count more than canon and stuff, anyway.

Posts: 8
Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2011 9:36 am

Re: [WIP] Chronicles of Ysgramor

Postby Jack Pot » Thu Apr 26, 2012 12:18 pm

Y'know what? I had no idea the 2nd era spanned 2920 years. So yes, we're looking at roughly 4300 years from Ysgarmor's time (around ME 1000) 'til the time of Morrowind (roughly 3E 430). Neither manuscript nor parchment would survive even half that time without special preservation - and a climate like Skyrim's would not be helpful. Apparently, the oldest "book" on Earth is an etruscan manuscript about 2500 years old: and this is gold sheets we're talking about. So yes, getting the chronicles into the game will be a lot less trivial than I though it would be. I like your idea of fragments of the texts in their original form being slates that the player may find.
The chronicles, however, will need an introduction; for my original intention - them being more or less the original manuscript by Rasgard, son of Ysgramor, simply bound and compiled by some obscure scholar - won't cut it. They are simply too ancient and could only have survived until the age of Morrowind by some sort of "tradition" of compiling and copying them.
Oh well, nevermind.
I reckon I get on with it regardless, first of all. :mrgreen:

User avatar
Posts: 229
Joined: Sun May 29, 2011 8:15 am
Location: England

Re: [WIP] Chronicles of Ysgramor

Postby TerrifyingDaedricFoe » Thu Apr 26, 2012 2:43 pm

There could be some adventurer scholar who made it his life's work to track down the lost fragments of the Chronicles and compile them into a readable document, making educated guesses where pieces of the story are missing. Now he's old and weak, but thinks he has tracked down a significant piece of the puzzle that will allow him to complete the chronicles and release them to the world. He asks you to delve deep into the ruins of [Some Scary Place] and find it.
Tes96 wrote:By the Silver Caverns, what exactly is a heightmap?!

Posts: 226
Joined: Mon May 16, 2011 6:11 am

Re: [WIP] Chronicles of Ysgramor

Postby french ninja » Thu Apr 26, 2012 5:51 pm

Would these tablets basically be a book or note item modeled to be a tablet? I don't know if you can create unique textures while keeping books/notes looking like books/notes, but how about this:

when you click on the tablet and have a sheet of paper and charcoal (given by the old man), you create a charcoal tracing. You can then take this to the old man to have it translated?
Jarl of Lore for Skyrim: Home of the Nords

Posts: 8
Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2011 9:36 am

Re: [WIP] Chronicles of Ysgramor

Postby Jack Pot » Thu Apr 26, 2012 9:21 pm

@french ninja: I think you're right in suspecting you can only change all books/notes at once. But I understood Worsas to mean actual tablets (as in: slab of stone) as actual modeled items you can pick up. I do like your proposal of having to make a "carbon-copy" to have it translated, though. How about those stone slates being, say, part of a wall, so it's quite obvious you can't walk off with them?

@TerrifyingDaedricFoe: I like your idea. This would be a good quest. I would, however, split the "Chronicles" into about 12 in-game books: reason being, it'll take a native speaker about 2 hours to read the entire story when it's finished. If you were prepared to read for hours, why did you start a computer game in the first place?
As Morrowind is a very slow paced game, a 10 Minute read is not any more "demanding" as some original in-game books. 12 volumes means at least 12 quests and yeah, throw in a few more as you have to learn how to copy and decipher those ancient tablets and you're in for a good 20-30h gameplay plot. And a rather motivating one at that, once you let yourself being drawn into the story.

@Worsas:
The player would be required to know about the draconic letters and ancient nord tongue before being able to decipher a plate. Maybe it could just be a pile of letters similar to the dwemer texts that reveals its content in a messagebox once the player fulfills the conditions. But that may be a hassle to script.

Yep. I fully agree. How about it being a huge inscription on a wall in a deep dark dungeon, the private halls of a heavy guarded castle, a pattern in the sky of a different dimension, you name it...?
Instead of a messagebox, you'd get a book placed in your inventory, and nopes, I don't think it would be much of a hassle to script.

@everyone: This is fun! :mrgreen:
I take it as agreed that the player should somehow be involved in compiling the information, rather than just finding it?

Return to Literature

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest