Religions of Skyrim

This Forum is for general Skyrim/ Tamriel lore...you will find Hold related Lore in the Mod Development section
User avatar
Posts: 342
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2011 9:51 pm

Re: Religions of Skyrim

Postby Dirnae » Tue Nov 29, 2011 10:22 am

Free religion, the Nords are not a zealous people, many in fact simply care not where they came from and merely live in the moment, anyway. I believe that was said in unnofficial lore by MK, though I personally like it.

Quick question, there has been talk of a Dibella cult in the other thread, just make it clear for me. Are we going to go with the shamanistic approach, or are we now veering towards some sort of TES:V interpretation?
[11:05:43] Wolli: ah yeharp, i felled the [NUG-RI-BOOGAR] felf too MK!

Muspila

Re: Religions of Skyrim

Postby Muspila » Tue Nov 29, 2011 3:11 pm

Quick question, there has been talk of a Dibella cult in the other thread, just make it clear for me. Are we going to go with the shamanistic approach, or are we now veering towards some sort of TES:V interpretation?

The idea I had in that other thread about altars, was to provide for bigger sanctuaries one for each deity. This idea does not really interfere with the shamanism-approach. We are far from creating a TES V - Interpretation, as far as I can judge.

Edit: Removed unneeded rant.

User avatar
Posts: 514
Joined: Sun Oct 09, 2011 6:49 pm
Location: College of Winterhold, Skyrim

Re: Religions of Skyrim

Postby Tes96 » Tue Nov 29, 2011 10:22 pm

Muspila wrote:
Quick question, there has been talk of a Dibella cult in the other thread, just make it clear for me. Are we going to go with the shamanistic approach, or are we now veering towards some sort of TES:V interpretation?

The idea I had in that other thread about altars, was to provide for bigger sanctuaries one for each deity. This idea does not really interfere with the shamanism-approach. We are far from creating a TES V - Interpretation, as far as I can judge.
And besides, Bethesda's focus on TESV wasn't its religion or politics or economy. I think they focused mostly on the exterior world building and combat & combat-related things.
I think if Skyrim were real and the Nords were real too, religion would play a much bigger part in it than it does in the game. I know that a game company can't incorporate every iota and aspect of life into a game, though, so I'm cool with what they did for TESV. But since our Skyrim is a hobby and we can go at our own pace, I'm wanting to infuse religion into the culture much more than Bethesda does... making sure that it fits with TES lore, that is.
Interior Reviewer
Skyrim: Home of the Nords
Province: Cyrodiil
Tamriel-Rebuilt
"If one is to understand the arcane arts, one must study all its aspects, not just the dogmatic narrow view of the Mages Guild."

User avatar
Posts: 207
Joined: Tue May 17, 2011 1:52 pm
Location: The Ratway

Re: Religions of Skyrim

Postby Rattfink333 » Wed Nov 30, 2011 2:43 am

Uhh... sorry tes96. part of the reason for the civil war is the ban on talos worship due to the provisions of the white-gold concordiat. wrote up at the end of the war with the aldmeri dominion. And politics are involved too. as you can take sides in the civil war and a few other things as well. though they did not get as deep into it as i hope we will. They covered it.


P.S. I HAAAATE the thalmer!!!!!!! And am so glad they don't exist in this mods timeframe. ;)
Paladin of Vaermina

User avatar
Posts: 514
Joined: Sun Oct 09, 2011 6:49 pm
Location: College of Winterhold, Skyrim

Re: Religions of Skyrim

Postby Tes96 » Wed Nov 30, 2011 7:10 am

Rattfink333 wrote:Uhh... sorry tes96. part of the reason for the civil war is the ban on talos worship due to the provisions of the white-gold concordiat. wrote up at the end of the war with the aldmeri dominion. And politics are involved too. as you can take sides in the civil war and a few other things as well. though they did not get as deep into it as i hope we will. They covered it.

What is "concordiat"? Google doesn't give good results.

I thought Nords worshipped Ysmir, not Talos? Why did they call him Talos in the game and not Ysmir? pantheon

So the Nords made a pact with the Aldmeri Dominion?
I haven't installed the game yet but are there rituals (big or miniscule) of religious rites or ceremonies? (Like burning the tips of mammoth tusks after they've been cut off so as to allow the spirit of the mammoth to disperse and produce more mammoths, etc)
Interior Reviewer
Skyrim: Home of the Nords
Province: Cyrodiil
Tamriel-Rebuilt
"If one is to understand the arcane arts, one must study all its aspects, not just the dogmatic narrow view of the Mages Guild."

User avatar
Posts: 21
Joined: Fri Jun 10, 2011 7:49 pm

Re: Religions of Skyrim

Postby Melchior Dahrk » Wed Nov 30, 2011 5:40 pm

Concordat, Tes96. Not concordiat.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/concordat

Muspila

Re: Religions of Skyrim

Postby Muspila » Thu Dec 01, 2011 11:57 am

I thought Nords worshipped Ysmir, not Talos? Why did they call him Talos in the game and not Ysmir? pantheon

I don't know for sure why they did that. I think they might have aimed for a twist. The nord-deities are not totally absent, they are merely not honored by temples but exist in dialogue and sayings. It's probably so that the nords accept the imperial cult as a cult of their own deities and that the imperial names have become more official synonyms for many of their own deities. Just that. If we want to take the temples in TES V into consideration, we have the possibility of explicitly showing them as imperial cult shrines rather than native institutions

So the Nords made a pact with the Aldmeri Dominion?

The empire made after becoming overrun by the Aldmeri Dominion where they agreed to ban Talos-Worship.

I haven't installed the game yet but are there rituals (big or miniscule) of religious rites or ceremonies? (Like burning the tips of mammoth tusks after they've been cut off so as to allow the spirit of the mammoth to disperse and produce more mammoths, etc)

I know of marriage. I haven't really paid much attention to the individual cults yet. They are going to be less animistic/shamanistic than your example.

User avatar
Posts: 207
Joined: Tue May 17, 2011 1:52 pm
Location: The Ratway

Re: Religions of Skyrim

Postby Rattfink333 » Thu Dec 01, 2011 2:43 pm

the only group i have really seen as shamanistic are the forsworn. And they are specific to the games time frame as well. We could do something like that with the reachmen. I am thinking they are similar in orientation. I dunno if you already kicked that idea to the curb. but i do remember it being discussed.
Paladin of Vaermina

User avatar
Posts: 105
Joined: Mon May 16, 2011 8:06 am

Re: Religions of Skyrim

Postby SamirA » Thu Dec 01, 2011 10:05 pm

The Nordic pantheon and the Imperial one are essentially the same. It's like greek and roman mythology. Same dudes, different names. Notice in all TES games the Imperial names are used most often. What type of armor is found in Dwemer ruins? Dwarven, this is because that is the Imperial name for the Dwemer. If we stick with that tradition we will use the Imperial names for official stuff and reference the Nord names in dialogue and maybe literature. This style has been in Morrowind, Oblivion, and now Skyrim with one or two changes here and there between them.

User avatar
Posts: 514
Joined: Sun Oct 09, 2011 6:49 pm
Location: College of Winterhold, Skyrim

Re: Religions of Skyrim

Postby Tes96 » Fri Dec 02, 2011 5:38 am

Muspila wrote:
I thought Nords worshipped Ysmir, not Talos? Why did they call him Talos in the game and not Ysmir? pantheon

I don't know for sure why they did that. I think they might have aimed for a twist. The nord-deities are not totally absent, they are merely not honored by temples but exist in dialogue and sayings. It's probably so that the nords accept the imperial cult as a cult of their own deities and that the imperial names have become more official synonyms for many of their own deities. Just that. If we want to take the temples in TES V into consideration, we have the possibility of explicitly showing them as imperial cult shrines rather than native institutions

So the Nords made a pact with the Aldmeri Dominion?

The empire made after becoming overrun by the Aldmeri Dominion where they agreed to ban Talos-Worship.

I haven't installed the game yet but are there rituals (big or miniscule) of religious rites or ceremonies? (Like burning the tips of mammoth tusks after they've been cut off so as to allow the spirit of the mammoth to disperse and produce more mammoths, etc)

I know of marriage. I haven't really paid much attention to the individual cults yet. They are going to be less animistic/shamanistic than your example.

I think because Talos sounds coolor than Ysmir, and the kids who bought this game would go "huh, Ysmir, what a goofy sounding name".
Oh, I played TESV last night at my friend's house for the first time. Meh... it's alright; doesn't capture me. My friend also showed me Witcher 2. That game is bad ass! Done very well. It's made by Europeans too so it's not all pussified like american games are, in my humble opinion, any ways. But that's all getting off topic.

The Aldmeri Dominion (altmer and bosmer provinces?) don't worship Talos anymore but the Imperials in Skyrim do?
Interior Reviewer
Skyrim: Home of the Nords
Province: Cyrodiil
Tamriel-Rebuilt
"If one is to understand the arcane arts, one must study all its aspects, not just the dogmatic narrow view of the Mages Guild."

User avatar
Posts: 1135
Joined: Mon May 16, 2011 12:10 pm
Location: yes

Re: Religions of Skyrim

Postby Scamp » Fri Dec 02, 2011 5:03 pm

I think Talos is just a more common name to Elder Scrolls players. When they said Talos in the game I immediately knew who they were talking about, if they had said Ysmir I wouldn't have known shit because I am a lore n00b. And after all, you can't expect everyone to be a lore boss like a Tes96, and that is probably the reason they chose Talos.
"Scamp is a genius" - Dirnae

Image

User avatar
Posts: 342
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2011 9:51 pm

Re: Religions of Skyrim

Postby Dirnae » Fri Dec 02, 2011 5:40 pm

Imperial religion is actually a merging of Nordic and Aylied religion. Some of the gods are deemed too Elven and therefore bad by the Nords, I think. Though I haven't got time to pull up any references atm.

I'm not sure how I feel about this myself, it seems a bit of a waste on the one hand.
[11:05:43] Wolli: ah yeharp, i felled the [NUG-RI-BOOGAR] felf too MK!

User avatar
Posts: 514
Joined: Sun Oct 09, 2011 6:49 pm
Location: College of Winterhold, Skyrim

Re: Religions of Skyrim

Postby Tes96 » Fri Dec 02, 2011 7:10 pm

Dirnae wrote:Imperial religion is actually a merging of Nordic and Aylied religion. Some of the gods are deemed too Elven and therefore bad by the Nords, I think. Though I haven't got time to pull up any references atm.

I'm not sure how I feel about this myself, it seems a bit of a waste on the one hand.

But we're going with how the Nordic religion was back in 3rd era, not 4th, so our implementation of nord religion will be a little different from TESV's I'm assuming.
Bethesda is heading down a path I do not like. Skyrim feels more like an action-adventure game than a traditional role-play game like Daggerfall or Morrowind.
Interior Reviewer
Skyrim: Home of the Nords
Province: Cyrodiil
Tamriel-Rebuilt
"If one is to understand the arcane arts, one must study all its aspects, not just the dogmatic narrow view of the Mages Guild."

Muspila

Re: Religions of Skyrim

Postby Muspila » Sat Dec 03, 2011 1:02 am

I want to say that I like your input in here regarding nordic religion.

TES96 you have interesting ideas, although most of them cannot be shown in the game other than through dialogue. I don't think we should restrict shamanism to Reachmen. In my view the Nords should have shamanistic elements in their culture. The people from atmora were tribal people or at least there are mentionings of "Atmoran Tribes" in the 1st pocket guide. Many of the early nedes seem to have been organised in tribes. The Nords somehow represent the more original men and therefore I don't think it would be absurd to show leftovers of tribal culture.

TES96 you gave me an idea a while ago when you spoke of the test young indian (native american) men have to go through to be recognized as men where they are left alone in the wilderness and get near to Death and finally find their totem, the latter granting them a certain power. The known fighting of Ice Wraiths young Nord men have to go through in the very traditional parts, could be understood similarly. The ice wraiths being the illusions appearing to the starving young Nord that test him. In his darkest hour a spirit animal appear the young Nord and lend him his power. If it is a bear, the power the Nord will receive will be a mighty thunderfist, if it is a Horker, the Nord will receive immunity to any cold, etc. something like that. I know the Nords are already immune to cold, this is merely to derive the magical abilities of Nords from something. Nah, that might be a bad idea though.

But it's not a totally absurd idea that Nords as descendant of a huntersmen are interested in the power animals. The hornet helmets could just be something like a desire to be lent the strength of a bull or a Vallagh. A similar thing could apply to the bear- and wolf-heads or the Troll-Skulls worn by Nords. This barbaric theme is not limited to Nords though but it is definetively suggested by what is shown from them.

Speaking of absorbing the strength of something else:
We probably all know of a game where a Dragonborn absorbs the knowledge/power of Dragons. We know of Ysmir, who people couldn't look at without seeing a Dragon. We could establish something like a general interest of Nords in lending the power of other beings, they more they absorb, the more they take on characteristics of what they absorb. This probably conflicts with the idea of were-beings though were it is the sickness that will turn you into a lycantrop and the dragonborn, i think i have heard somewhere, is one who was already born with the soul of a dragon.

But you can easily see that there is something like a theme that would allow for such concepts as totems aswell as consuming or wearing parts of other beings to receive their power and similar things.

Imperial religion is actually a merging of Nordic and Aylied religion. Some of the gods are deemed too Elven and therefore bad by the Nords, I think. Though I haven't got time to pull up any references atm.

I'm not sure how I feel about this myself, it seems a bit of a waste on the one hand.

Zenithar for one I think has elven origin. In case of a few others like Mara and Dibella that are shared between pretty much all people, I don't know. Dibella does not sound terribly nordic to me but is in the nordic pantheon.

User avatar
Posts: 85
Joined: Fri May 18, 2012 2:56 pm
Location: Aarhus

Re: Religions of Skyrim

Postby SirEyeball » Mon May 21, 2012 7:02 pm

The Emperial College of the Voice is in Markarth http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Markarth_Side.
That is actually part of the religion of the sky http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Way_of_the_Voice.
Don't know if that is something to incorporate i makes for new abilities and spells. Well maybe not new I just havn't come across them :oops:
Correct me if I am wrong in this and tell me where to get this. I always play a Nord and I want it :twisted:
Sir Eyeball
Loving that Morrowind is not forgotten

Previous

Return to Lore

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest