City Claim: Karthwasten - Claimed by Praedator

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City Claim: Karthwasten - Claimed by Praedator

Postby Lestat DeLioncourt » Fri Aug 26, 2011 9:21 pm

This topic will be locked until the planning and 3d Modeling on this claim will be finished.
#include <iostream>
using namespace std;

int main () {
cout << "This is C++, you won't even think of Java again once you discovered what this language is able to do" << endl;
return 0;
}

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Re: City Claim: Karthwasten

Postby Lestat DeLioncourt » Thu Feb 09, 2012 9:33 am

Unlocked - Claimed by Praedator

Have fun, mate
#include <iostream>
using namespace std;

int main () {
cout << "This is C++, you won't even think of Java again once you discovered what this language is able to do" << endl;
return 0;
}

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Re: City Claim: Karthwasten

Postby Praedator » Sun Feb 12, 2012 12:26 pm


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Re: City Claim: Karthwasten

Postby french ninja » Sun Feb 12, 2012 6:23 pm

Very nice! The new buildings look great.
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Re: City Claim: Karthwasten

Postby SamirA » Mon Feb 13, 2012 1:44 am

This needs to be moved to claimed :mrgreen:

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Re: City Claim: Karthwasten - Claimed by Praedator

Postby Scamp » Mon Feb 13, 2012 12:16 pm

Moved and renamed appropriately.
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Re: City Claim: Karthwasten - Claimed by Praedator

Postby Lestat DeLioncourt » Mon Feb 13, 2012 12:40 pm

@ Praedator

The city layout looks very cool ;) The only thing I'm not sure is the use of the retextured vanilla houses in The Reach in general. As far as I remember those houses were "banned" to Falkreath because of their colovian look.

In general it is possible to use those houses in that area too I guess, since Falkreath is the neighbor hold the influence could be similar, but like I said I'm unsure about how we should handle the vanilla house retexes in general.

Maybe the other heads (moderators) and 3d Modelers should make their statement here as well to clear how we handle those houses, if we use them in Falkreath only, or in addition to Falkreath also in southern Reach, or if we should remove the retexes completely and replace them with a new architecture for Falkreath as soon as we start working on Falkreath...they look nice in combination with the redguard houses, no question.

What do you think guys?

@ Scamp

Thanks for moving the topic, mate
#include <iostream>
using namespace std;

int main () {
cout << "This is C++, you won't even think of Java again once you discovered what this language is able to do" << endl;
return 0;
}

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Re: City Claim: Karthwasten - Claimed by Praedator

Postby Worsas » Mon Feb 13, 2012 1:48 pm

This town has something about it, that says 'Arena' to me. :D

Lestat DeLioncourt wrote:@ Praedator

The city layout looks very cool ;) The only thing I'm not sure is the use of the retextured vanilla houses in The Reach in general. As far as I remember those houses were "banned" to Falkreath because of their colovian look.

In general it is possible to use those houses in that area too I guess, since Falkreath is the neighbor hold the influence could be similar, but like I said I'm unsure about how we should handle the vanilla house retexes in general.

Maybe the other heads (moderators) and 3d Modelers should make their statement here as well to clear how we handle those houses, if we use them in Falkreath only, or in addition to Falkreath also in southern Reach, or if we should remove the retexes completely and replace them with a new architecture for Falkreath as soon as we start working on Falkreath...they look nice in combination with the redguard houses, no question.

What do you think guys?

@ Scamp

Thanks for moving the topic, mate

I would take the common-houses away from Karthwasten.

The reason for different houses in a cramped own quarter, as Praedator told me, was that this is where the Nords lived under the reign of Redguard before Skyrim reclaimed the City, right?
The thing is though: What is called Redguard-architecture in Skyrim-data, really is Redguard-Breton-Nord-Architecture. In particular the thatch-roofed houses of the redguard-set are much more nord-houses than Redguard-houses. I would completey stick with the redguard-set and in case you really want to add something different, use 1 or 2 Nord-shacks.

Edit:
@Praedator: Wasn't the poor destroyed quarter meant to be the quarter of Reachmen and Khajiit now? You told me you wanted to have this as redguard-quarter.
Last edited by Worsas on Mon Feb 13, 2012 1:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: City Claim: Karthwasten - Claimed by Praedator

Postby Praedator » Mon Feb 13, 2012 1:50 pm

Lestat DeLioncourt wrote:@ Praedator

The city layout looks very cool ;) The only thing I'm not sure is the use of the retextured vanilla houses in The Reach in general. As far as I remember those houses were "banned" to Falkreath because of their colovian look.

In general it is possible to use those houses in that area too I guess, since Falkreath is the neighbor hold the influence could be similar, but like I said I'm unsure about how we should handle the vanilla house retexes in general.

Maybe the other heads (moderators) and 3d Modelers should make their statement here as well to clear how we handle those houses, if we use them in Falkreath only, or in addition to Falkreath also in southern Reach, or if we should remove the retexes completely and replace them with a new architecture for Falkreath as soon as we start working on Falkreath...they look nice in combination with the redguard houses, no question.

What do you think guys?


Why have I used them;
We have a redguard city occupied by nords, before that it was the reguards living there, and the walled quarter was for nord citizens, thus have com buildings.
Nowadays the Nords live in the redguard housing, and have put the redguards in their old (nord) quarter, which can easily be shut off with one gate whenever they like it.

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Re: City Claim: Karthwasten - Claimed by Praedator

Postby Worsas » Mon Feb 13, 2012 1:56 pm

Why have I used them;
We have a redguard city occupied by nords, before that it was the reguards living there, and the walled quarter was for nord citizens, thus have com buildings.
Nowadays the Nords live in the redguard housing, and have put the redguards in their old (nord) quarter, which can easily be shut off with one gate whenever they like it.


I would take the common-houses away from Karthwasten.

The reason for different houses in a cramped own quarter, as Praedator told me, was that this is where the Nords lived under the reign of Redguard before Skyrim reclaimed the City, right?
The thing is though: What is called Redguard-architecture in Skyrim-data, really is Redguard-Breton-Nord-Architecture. In particular the thatch-roofed houses of the redguard-set are much more nord-houses than Redguard-houses. I would completey stick with the redguard-set and in case you really want to add something different, use 1 or 2 Nord-shacks.


I would not even say that this quarter has ever been nord-quarter. I don't believe that Redguards would have treated the Nords as the lowest class in the time of their occupation. The poor ethnicity of The Reach have always been Reachmen, who also have caused trouble to any governors of The Reach so far.

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Re: City Claim: Karthwasten - Claimed by Praedator

Postby Praedator » Mon Feb 13, 2012 1:59 pm

I am fine with redguard housing too, it is just less flexible in poor areas, so it won't look as good imo.

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Re: City Claim: Karthwasten - Claimed by Praedator

Postby Worsas » Mon Feb 13, 2012 2:12 pm

I am fine with redguard housing too, it is just less flexible in poor areas, so it won't look as good imo.

You may change the quarter to contain less houses and more stuff like fencings, scaffolds, wood-piles, trash and such? Obviously you'll only see a couple of thatch-roofed houses in there apart from that.

One thing I also wanted to mention: There are railings in the redguard-set that are called fences in Skyrim-Data (with crossed wooden beams). Those are not really fences and should not be used for the fencing of animals for example, they are only railings for balcony, walkways etc. Just a general information, that i meant to give all along.

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Re: City Claim: Karthwasten - Claimed by Praedator

Postby Praedator » Mon Feb 13, 2012 2:15 pm

thx Muspila, saw those and used them at balconies.

I will see what I can make of te quarter. I'll fiddle around until its nice ;)

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Re: City Claim: Karthwasten - Claimed by Praedator

Postby Praedator » Mon Feb 13, 2012 5:59 pm

I have done all rough building except a few windmills, and a house in the sw of the city.

Could you guys check the esp if the cities layout and properties are right? I have changed the com buildings with redguard ones.

Do I need to make a map with numbers and designations first?

After it is ok I will start cluttering, doors and stuff. Takes me another week or so...
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Re: City Claim: Karthwasten - Claimed by Praedator

Postby french ninja » Mon Feb 13, 2012 7:18 pm

I think once you get that done we could make some comparison shots between our Karthwasten and TES V's Karthwasten and post it to the forums, to show how our sense of scale and detail is going to be a lot more grand (10x larger I think).
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Re: City Claim: Karthwasten - Claimed by Praedator

Postby Lestat DeLioncourt » Mon Feb 13, 2012 9:46 pm

Praedator wrote:I have done all rough building except a few windmills, and a house in the sw of the city.

Could you guys check the esp if the cities layout and properties are right? I have changed the com buildings with redguard ones.

Do I need to make a map with numbers and designations first?

After it is ok I will start cluttering, doors and stuff. Takes me another week or so...



I've checked the city in the CS and I love it, it really looks great. Size is perfect

Here a few points meant as constructive criticism:

- It would look cool if the long passages without a redguard city wall would have some ruined or partly ruined passages in between. The long clean passages look a bit like the nords removed some parts of the wall completly, some small wall passages would make it look more "natural" destroyed.
- Some textures look a bit out of place since they are not used in The Reach in general, like the grass that is used in southern Haafinheim, but it is really a minor problem and is easy to fix for me later. I'll also send you an email with a list of the ground textures that is used in The Reach.


@ French Ninja

It's a great idea ;)
#include <iostream>
using namespace std;

int main () {
cout << "This is C++, you won't even think of Java again once you discovered what this language is able to do" << endl;
return 0;
}

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Re: City Claim: Karthwasten - Claimed by Praedator

Postby Praedator » Mon Feb 13, 2012 10:28 pm

Lestat DeLioncourt wrote:
I've checked the city in the CS and I love it, it really looks great. Size is perfect

Here a few points meant as constructive criticism:

- It would look cool if the long passages without a redguard city wall would have some ruined or partly ruined passages in between. The long clean passages look a bit like the nords removed some parts of the wall completly, some small wall passages would make it look more "natural" destroyed.
- Some textures look a bit out of place since they are not used in The Reach in general, like the grass that is used in southern Haafinheim, but it is really a minor problem and is easy to fix for me later. I'll also send you an email with a list of the ground textures that is used in The Reach.


If I understand it right you mean the spacing between south and north walls?

What my plan was building those is to shield off all land attack, the cliffs being a natural barrier. The north wall goes from west to east spanning the whole width of the mesa, and thus protecting the city. The south wall is only to shield and guard the entrance over the canyon.
I made the walls so that they are impassible walking. Ofcourse one can levitate.

So the reguards took advantage of the mesas structure, building as little wall as possible, yet very strategical.

If I know what textures to use I can replace them no problem at all.

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Re: City Claim: Karthwasten - Claimed by Praedator

Postby Yeti » Tue Feb 14, 2012 3:52 am

Overall I really like your design, Praedator. However, I am slightly concerned about the number of exterior cells the city is taking up. While I think the number of buildings in the city is good, there are currently a few cells: (-106,5), (-106,6), (-103,4) and (-103,6), that only have a few buildings in them.

Now, in order for dialogue to be filtered for the Npcs in these cells, they would have to be named as part of Karthwasten. However it seems a little weird to have an entire cell labeled “Karthwasten” if there are only 3-4 buildings of the city actually in it.

Is there any way some of the buildings could be moved so that the city fits within a smaller number of cells? Currently it has buildings in 11 cells, which is huge even compared to some of TR's largest cities.


By the way, I'm really loving the large manors in the southeast corner of the city. Our Redguard tileset is in good hands. 8-)
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Re: City Claim: Karthwasten - Claimed by Praedator

Postby Praedator » Tue Feb 14, 2012 6:53 am

Yeti wrote:Overall I really like your design, Praedator. However, I am slightly concerned about the number of exterior cells the city is taking up. While I think the number of buildings in the city is good, there are currently a few cells: (-106,5), (-106,6), (-103,4) and (-103,6), that only have a few buildings in them.

Now, in order for dialogue to be filtered for the Npcs in these cells, they would have to be named as part of Karthwasten. However it seems a little weird to have an entire cell labeled “Karthwasten” if there are only 3-4 buildings of the city actually in it.

Is there any way some of the buildings could be moved so that the city fits within a smaller number of cells? Currently it has buildings in 11 cells, which is huge even compared to some of TR's largest cities.


By the way, I'm really loving the large manors in the southeast corner of the city. Our Redguard tileset is in good hands. 8-)



TY Yeti :)

I checked the cells, first of all I didn't know about such a rule or difficulty. I will definately keep it in mind for next projects.

This said it will be very hard to fill up te gaps that are created by removing interiors from those bordering cells, in some cases it will just look awkward, in other cases they cannot be sensibly filled with other structures.
Secondly the whole mesa should be Karthwasten even if there are no buildings, and I only used its extends, even the actual city is only 2/3 of the mesa, rest is farmland. I didnt want to just make a dense city, but let it have a gradual feel froom poor and dirty to rich and sophisticated. And the farms need buildings near it.
Also a small village with 4-5 houses would get a named cell, so do farms (which you could name differently; like -105,6 could be called Karthwasten Stables).

Deleting (as moving is no option, everywhere is cluttered) would not look better at all. So I am afraid I cannot do much about your wish Yeti :/

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Re: City Claim: Karthwasten - Claimed by Praedator

Postby Scamp » Tue Feb 14, 2012 12:39 pm

Couldn't you maybe "raise" the area a bit where the manors are located? It would greatly help distinguishing between poor and rich districts and it'd also look tons more badass having several levels instead of having it all flat like it is now. (I tell you, it helped wonders in Stirk!)
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